Money!
Such an issue, isn’t it?
How much do you start on, how much do you end on, do you get more then the team next door?
Well, in the interests of not giving a shit about all that bollocks, I thought I’d let you know how much I earned in my years in the business (if you fancy sticking your own in the comments, we might find that enlightening):
Age 22: £10,000
Age 23: £12,500
Age 24 (fired and back to square one): £12,500
Age 26: £17,500 then £22,500
Age 27: £27,500
Age 28: £32,500
Age 29: £38,500
Age 30: £43,500
Age 31: £70,000
Age 32: £80,000
Age 33: £85,000
Age 34: £99,500
Age 35-37: freelance day rates vary too much to be accurate, but the 20% tax rate is very pleasant indeed.
I do have other sources of income (slave trading, moonshine production, go-go dancing for coins etc.), but you needn’t worry yourself about those.
I’d guess I plodded along a bit in my early years then accelerated as things went along. That might be down to the percentage pay rises (30-40% early on, then closer to 10% later, although that equated to a larger sum of money). I’m not really sure if that’s a little or a lot for my time/awards/responsibilities/work etc., but I never really moved agencies and have been through several recessions and pay freezes. Also, wages have changed a great deal (downwards in real terms) in the last decade, so I’m perfectly happy with what I’ve earned, but it’s never enough, is it? (Smiley face made out of punctuation.)
I hear kids these days start on £25,000, but does that translate to a higher sum later on, or is there a bit of a ceiling that keeps you down? Is middleweight about £50k or £60k? Do you have to take on client responsibilities if you’re on six figures? Do you earn less outside London?
Let’s have a frank (yet almost certainly anonymous) discussion about such things.
Starters get around 25k?
I knew my CD was fucking us over, but I didn’t realise quite how badly.
It’s the ad equivalent of rape.
age 20-Bridge Advertising £1,560 (A Year!!!!), age 23-Leo Burnett £5,000, age 27-£17,500 plus a company Austin Maxi!
I miss the golden years.
I made ¬£10,000 at 22 but then by my 23rd they’d up me to ¬£1,000,000 with a honda accord and massive drugs throw in for free coz i’m the best. i ghost directed all of Cabral’s shit and Sorrell delivers wads of cash to my front door every morning, in person.
The year is 1967. After Colin Millward, Ronnie Dickenson, Bob Pethick, and several others, I arrived in God’s office.
JP: Well, it looks like we’d like you to come here. How much do you want?
Me (what the fuck do I say now):
I’m earning 1500 pounds right now so I’ll come for 1800. (shit, he’s going to laugh).
JP: Right, we’ll start you at 2200, will that be alright?
Me (mute and fighting an overwhelming urge to drop to the carpet and throw myself on his shoes). I’m afraid I can’t remember what my reply was.
You can say: Ben’s a cunt, Cameron’s a cunt, God’s (a bit of) a cunt, Jesus is a cunt. You can say you take it up: the arse, the twat, the inner ear. But sweet Mother of fuck on a stick – you can’t say your fucking salary? The last taboo. Next you’ll be telling us how you vote.
Having run my own, small, agency I know you only ever make real money when your name’s above the door.
Man, you arse rape you staff and fuck your clients any which way you can.
In answer to the Outside London question, YES, you earn less. At almost every level and in almost every agency role. Apart from a few Board Directors setting their own six figure salaries back when Things Were Good (thanks for the info, Companies House).
I now feel sick.
Dear Ben. I’d be interested to know if there were any causes for pay rises. E.g. won awards here, won pitch here, head-hunted to new agency. And did you have to ask for more money or was it offered?
Started on ¬£10k 12 years ago. Thankfully on slightly more now – ¬£45k
Good post Ben. Very brave. Very interesting to read.
But “I hear kids these days start on ¬£25,000”. Where have you heard this? I’m 2 years 9 months into a job at a network agency and haven’t got up to that wage yet. But yes it is outside London.
It’d be interesting to know if that’s why it’s lower. Swings and roundabout I suppose, not being in the city means I may have a smaller wage packet but compared to many London based friends have a lot more left in my wallet a the end of the month.
You seem to have gotten pay rises every year, is that through asking or by doing good work/ winning awards and being rewarded?
What happened when you were 31?
Maybe they start on £20k to 25k.
Causes for pay rises? The big one at 31 was a response to another job offer (thank you Ed Morris). The others were just me whinging a bit if I hadn’t had one in a while.
I did get in the book every year between 2002 and 2009 but I’m not sure that made any real difference. Then again it was something solid to justify my case. If, say, only five people in the department managed that in one year you then had something to point to as a reason why you deserved a little something. Without that? Surely trickier.
Lend us a score Ben?
this is a fucking brilliant post. every team in town will now be moaning about how under-paid they are. great!
you’re blog is the best thing around. It’s great that a blog like this seems to get so much attention from junior teams in the London.
But I need to apologise, for I am a fucking retard and a bit of a cunt.
So the next question is, how long should a creative be on the same wage before they start whining?
Hi Ben, can i ask what caused the big jump in salary from ages 30 to 32? Was that due to awards?
Junior team jobs are advertised at 25k, but when it comes to the crunch you are lucky if you get 22k as they know we’re all desperate.
23: 9k
23: 18k
25: 40k
26: 50k
27:55k
33: 70k
actually, no
23: 9k
23: 18k
24: 32k
25: 40k
26: 50k
27:55k
33: 70k
are you not sad you never made the seymour, ben?
I made the extra £500 up in quite depraved sexual favours just to reach it.
No he’s not. But might be in the same building?
Unless someone is using my mac? Security.
no. i’m his team mate. you haven’t even got the balls to put up my post. you cunt.
(I’d better add at this stage that I’m a complete wanker. Sorry Gout-Legs that you have to work with me. The only thrills I get in my life are when I go to the agency bogs for a wank over that girl who turned me down when I was fifteen. I really am a pathetic, dismal arsehole who can’t even see when I’m being a fuckbrained hypocrite. God I’m a cunt.)
I wonder if any of you Southern lot caught wind of the fatuous “Resign London” campaign a couple of weeks back? Caused a bit of a stink up here in industry circles, not least because nobody up here earns anywhere near as much as they could in London. Hence, their idea that people in London might be tempted back up North by a bit of countryside and -ahem- shit work, on less money was pretty fucking retarded.
It ain’t what you make, it’s what you do with it. Most creatives have a fairly short and precarious working life, so invest it, buy a flat or something, get something you can live off when the business finally eases you out. Happens to all of us….
Sorry Gout-Legs.
You appear to have the same IP address as a stupid fucking cunt.
I apologise unreservedly for suggesting that you were in any way cunty (comment now removed).
You have my deepest sympathy for having to work with such an arsehole.
Mugabe, how can you talk about having balls when you post anonymously, hiding behind your snarky little comments like the cunt you are?
Seriously, fuck off you pathetic little wipe of shit.
I’m not sure the average creative should judge their salary on yours Ben, as, like you say, you were in the book every year and you were creative director at 31 or something weren’t you?
And I’m with Simon Billing on this one… You just don’t talk about it. It’s a big hairy Pandora’s box.
at 34, getting paid to have fun ideas and without much people management responsibility you were earning more salary than my dad who owns and runs his own 10m+ turnover company employing 250 people!
so, despite the various moans, it can’t be a bad industry to work in!(admittedly I’m sure my dad gets plenty of top ups in shares and various other wheezes, but still)
I’m not asking anyone to judge themselves against me. I just thought I’d open the dialogue.
Sorry if I’ve made anyone feel uncomfortable.
You know in Finland everyone can find everyone else’s salary by sending a text message?
So it’s not a fundamental human discomfort.
Might just be you and Simon (smiley face etc.)
Worm, £10,000,000 divided by 250 is £40,000 each (on average).
He should let a few people go, no?*
*This is an attempt at humour.
I’m not saying its not fair or anything like that, just that advertising is obviously a very good industry to be in if you’re good at it! (and live in london)
I’ve never disclosed my pay to anybody – it’s a matter for me and me alone (and my wife of course – she’s the real boss), however I have friends that know what everyone in their office is earning, and regularly chat about it quite openly. I’ve always found that kind of strange. Surely it only opens the doors for jealousy and grudges and the like…..
A text message in Finland.
Or an email at CHI.
I work for free. I don’t know how that happened. I feel like I’ve let myself down.
I’ll find out who it is and have him ethnically cleansed in an ironic twist of fate. I’ll get you Mugabe. You hear me.
On topic. Around 10 grand for every year of experience seems fair. Roughly 6 tv spots and maybe 20 ads each year would get the agency you work for 500 grand a year for production fees alone. Not taking into account your bill out rate.
Which actually makes you feel a little underpaid.
So that’s why the suicide rate is so high in Finland. (really smiley face maybe with a winking left eye)
Douglas Coupland wrote “as we get older sincerity ceases to feel pornographic”,or words to that effect.
Judging by the comment thread here, you have written a sincerely pornographic or a pornographically sincere post.
Great idea.
You guys get paid????
I get to see what you all earn. The creative teams I like and can see are underpaid I always let them know if I get drunk with them.
The overpaid teams find out they are overpaid in the medium term when a cutback has to be made.
The moral of the story is buy your finance cunt a beer now and again and then sit back and watch them be indiscreet
I wish you cunts would learn how to write a fucking smiley fucking face! It’s typographical prejudice, and insulting to me and punctuated faces everywhere.
Right on blood!
Whappen bredren?
Click de mouse on dees website:
http://www.thesalarycalculator.co.uk/
Top right ‘an corna tell ya wha your take ‘ome pay be on all de diff’rent wages boi. That gon make you kees ya teef when ya see wha you could be earnin’.
Peaz.
I got a 20 grand pay rise once for getting 2 D&AD nominations. That seemed pretty fucking good at the time. Especially when, 2 weeks later, they didn’t win.
Headhunters tend to tell creatives that they are well paid when they start looking for a new job, thus ensuring that lovely 20% mark-up while creating a little self-doubt and lowering of expectations.
I think the Finnish system would be great. I reckon it would discourage people at the top of organizations from over paying themselves too outrageously and help people at the bottom avoid being overly exploited. It’s certainly seems in the interests of those making unjustifiable sums to keep it secret.
Nearly all my friends and family discuss what they earn. Some are rich, some are poor. No one really cares apart from the ones who are completely taking the piss, or having the piss taken.
Ben,
really sorry pal. I thought we where on the same salary when we worked together. How did you manage.
I sold stolen layout pads and N50s.
…and dishwasher tablets. All those huge boxes of Finish Powerball on every floor.
1990 50/week
College
1993 10.5k
1994 11.5k
1995 15k
1996 20k
1997 25k
1998 4.50/hr
1999 failed startup
2000 failed startup
2001 9.5k
2002 2.5k
2003 3.5k
2004 17k
2005 25k
2006 22.5k
2007 18k
2008 12k
2009 650
2010 800
2011 2.2k to date
I’d have earned more if I left school unqualified at 16 and stayed on the on the minimum wage pro rata.
It’s a shit business, advertising.
Re Ben & Daryl – an established creative team (who’d worked together from the start) went into the CD to resign. The CD accepted their resignation and said to the Writer ‘obviously we’d like the telly back, the keys to the car, that subscription needs to be stopped, and the season ticket needs to be handed back’. The AD had no idea…
I earn just about enough to afford a ticket to a Champions League Quarter Final….
…..age 28 – I lost the company car (by this stage I’d been upgraded to an Austin Ambassador) and dropped to ¬£15,000 to go to the fledgling BBH, age 30 – ¬£30,000 (Lowes), age 32 – ¬£40,000 and a Vauxhall Astra (Lowes), age 32 and a bit – ¬£20,000 and an old style Mini (simons palmer DENTON clemmow and johnson)……………….it’s been down hill ever since.
So I’ve just trawled through 50+ comments, most of which is the usual hilarious ‘I’m a cunt blah blah’ and I’m none the wiser. I think it’s true to say that in modern advertising, six figure salaries for creatives who aren’t CDs are incredibly rare – I’d go so far to say non-existent. The one post that made me shudder was about buying a flat etc. I’ve got fuck all to show…except decrepit internal organs.
Hey Ben, it’s RobW (ex-of-AMV) is there an e-mail I can contact you on? Have a site for your ongoing creative extra-curricular project…
Rob, the email address you link to through your name doesn’t work.
You could try ben.kay@jwt.com
I think that’s my work email.
So here’s my story arc:
1995- £25K Junior
1998-£60K Middleweight
1999-£85K Senior (won a major award)
2000-Made redundant
2001 Freelance
2002-¬£100K! (smiley face etc…)
2003-4 Win more awards. Become a CD-£110K!!
2005-6 ¬£130K!!! (another senior team were on ¬£180K without being CD’s for Vessel’s info)
2007 Made redundant
2008-9 Freelance (not earning a lot at this stage-I blame the credit crunch rather than my own ineptitude)
2010 Decide to quit advertising and set up a small business. Sell large house. Move to smaller one.
@chicken
‘were’ being the operative word…humph.
I got £750 a year in 1969 (less than the secretaries, who were all on £1K). And £250 a day in 2003.
Here’s mine (so far):
21 & fresh out of uni: £18,000
22: £20,000
23: £23,000
24: £27,000
25: £30,000
The bigger jumps are when I moved jobs.
Love this post.
I have never understood why people are so weird about talking about their salaries.
The more people talk about it the more fair and even it will become.
23 (just out of college, 6 month internship) – ‚Ǩ12k/¬£10k
23 – ‚Ǩ23K/¬£20k
24 – ‚Ǩ28K/¬£24.5k
25 (moved abroad) – $55k/¬£35k
26 – just moved to London. Feck.
Wage of an account assistant to exec to manager:
21 – ¬£18k
22 – ¬£20k
23 – ¬£21k
24 – ¬£22.5k
25 – ¬£30k
26 – ¬£31.5k
27 – ¬£32.5k