Man vs Woman
I was just reading this interesting article on male vs female stand up comedians.
It suggests that women aren’t as good at standing up and making people laugh because they don’t grow up in the competitive environment that men do. Apparently, those of us without fallopian tubes live a life of one-upmanship all day, every day from the moment we are born. This hones our verbal gladiatorial skillz and turns the funnier of us into sharper comedians.
Is that the case? My first instinct is to dismiss it as sexist bullshit, but then I think a little more and perhaps see something in it. In addition, I wonder if it’s sexist after all.
I have two kids, a boy and a girl, and my seven-year-old son is roughly 1,000,000,000,000 times more competitive than my three-year-old daughter. She is strong-willed, smart and always stands her ground, but unlike my son, she doesn’t seek to create a contest out of every single thing from Subway Surfers and Thumb War to getting dressed and brushing teeth. I know it’s merely anecdotal, but I can see where the guy who wrote the article is coming from. My son and his friends are painfully, constantly, ridiculously competitive, while my daughter can’t see why all that guff is so important.
Which brings me to the sexism point. There’s nothing to say that being competitive is a good thing. It can certainly lead you to strive to greater efforts and achieve more than you would otherwise, but it also turns life into a somewhat pointless series of meaningless contests. Even if you compete in some of the more lucrative areas, such as sport, you’ll only compete against other men, who have the same competitive advantage as you. And has this competitive edge helped men in other areas? Women currently dominate the music charts and have no trouble winning Booker prizes (both massive competitions), while comediennes such as Tina Fey and Miranda (yes, I know she’s shit, but she’s very successful) also manage to dominate their field. So perhaps their lack of overall competitiveness allows them to concentrate on making their work good for its own sake, creating higher quality stuff that wins in the end.
So men might be more competitive, but it might not matter.
As this is pure conjecture rather than science, what are your unfounded opinions on the matter?
Maybe women don’t feel so affronted when they’re defeated so when we watch male standup we’re watching their disappointments in action. Don’t forget:
Sarah Silverman
Wanda Sykes
Sarah Millican
Samantha Bee
Lisa Lampanelli
Whitney Cummings
Susie Essman
Jennifer Saunders
Dawn French
Natasha Leggero
Kristen Schaal
Amy Sedaris
Jenny Slate
Lizz Winstead
Catherine Tate
Joan Rivers
This argument must originate from a man!!
I’m not sure that list helps a great deal. I don’t know who half of them are, but if I just thought for five seconds…
Louis CK
Ricky Gervais
Larry David
John Stewart
Jerry Seinfeld
Chris Rock
Zach Galifithingie
Will Ferrell
Steve Carell
Reggie Watts
Steve Martin (when he was good)
Richard Pryor
Lenny Bruce
Bill Hicks
Dennis Leary
Eddie Murphy (when he was good)
Dave Chapelle
Aziz Ansari
Russell Brand
George Carlin
Peter Cook
Robin Williams (when he was good)
Then the old classics, like Dangerfield, Hope, Newhart, The Goons, Hancock etc.
They blow your list out of the water. Historically, and even right now, men are funnier.
Does that matter? Is it sexist? No to both, but it is a fact.
I love your list Ben … especially George Carlin, Reggie Watts, Larry David, and Louis CK (my all time favourite). I’m just mentioning a few female standups I like. I wish there were some male standups I didn’t know on your list so I could go and explore some other guys who make me laugh!
Zach Galifithingie = Zach Galifianakis?
I guess your argument that men being historically funnier harps back to this blogs’ point of the competitive nature of men 😉
We all win in the end because we all get a laugh!
Yes. How competitive have I just been? Damn my gender.
This is completely unfounded, but could it be related to the fact that men often use humour to attract women? Therefore, they put more effort into honing the skill. Humour is often listed as a very attractive quality and it’s something you can learn. You can’t make yourself look like Brad Pitt, but you can make yourself an amusing and fun person to be around.
The majority of women don’t need to pick up men, so maybe they’re not as interested in learning comedy?
You seem to be having a downer with competitiveness. ‘Guff, meaningless’. You also seem to assume women aren’t competitive or rather that they have got to where they are by just being ‘nice’? I also noticed you derided Tina Fey and curiously not Miranda. I don’t think you have thought this ‘argument’ through. Btw on a survey of one my three year old daughter is as competitive as sure as night follows day.
I derided Miranda. Read it again.
Also never said that women aren’t competitive.
Also never assumed women got where they are just bring ‘nice’.
Also, try rewriting ‘as competitive as sure as night follows day’ so that it makes sense.
Does the derision of Tina apply to Miranda too ‘cos it doesn’t read that way to me.
‘their lack of overall competitiveness’.
I’ll give you that you never used the word ‘nice’ but surely it’s a given. I mean aren’t all girls sugar and spice?
I’m with you on that line…as sure as night follows day.
‘Lack of overall competitiveness’ was intended to suggest a lower level than a complete absence.
I’ve rearranged the Miranda sentence to make it less equivocal.
Men are genetically funnier in order to attract women and mate. Fact.
Here is an article in Vanity Fair by Hitchens on the topic, a longer version of what number 10 said. Helpful? Not sure about the genetics though. Women do rate funny higher than man do IMO.
http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701
I like his closing remark that women get funnier as they get older.
And for the sake of brevity. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S692f1tnuQ
Hmm. On the one hand, there’s probably some truth in the link between competitiveness and comedy. One the other, the guy is clearly a cunt of the highest order. So I’d probably wait for a somewhat more neutral and scientific analysis before I started regurgitating it at dinner parties.
I’ve always assumed that men are funnier because we mess about more. And historically have had more opportunity to mess about. Also, as kids, the boys seem more likely to play boisterously, and humour seems an inevitable product of play.
Unfounded, as you say.
I also think women are exceptionally competitive – but with each other.
I think it’s something to do with women not wanting to look goofy in front of others, partly because it might compromise their attractiveness. Think Halloween costumes – men often go as something clever, that makes them look like a bit of a prick, but a lot of women will try and make sure that they still look hot.
Also humour and wit are desirable traits in a man – signifying alpha male confidence and the ability to hold a group of people in your thrall. It’s not so important for a woman – in fact, some men are threatened by it. Being funny won’t really give women as much of an advantage, so they grow up being conditioned not to really try hard in that area.
actually i think women are very funny.
just give them a tennis ball and watch them throw.
…my Missus can be very funny.
Strangely OT-but-not; what about this, for fuck’s sake?
http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/thework/1178376/bonds-gday-boys-tbwa-london/
Day follows night- Genesis 1
i think women are just too smart to get sucked into stupid, painful, repetitive activities like skateboarding, stand up comedy, and advertising.
it is harder to find funny female actors. I have noticed that.
it’s a basic psychology throwback from evolution.
it could even be considered heuristic.
humour and laughter is a subservient trait.
you laugh in subservience to the comedian.
more men watch comedy than women and are less likely to be publicly subservient to a woman.
add to that the way you get “into” comedy(similar to advertising). Lots of hardship and sleeping on sofa’s. failing a lot and failing again. i could go on, but these are all filters that reduce the amount of women in comedy. that’s why the ones that make it are either ignorant to the fact they’re shit or are bloody brilliant.
What about gays, lesbian gays and transgenders? Everyone forgets the LGBGT ommunity.
Bit late to the thread as ever, but I think Germaine Greer says it all very well here (and comes to the same conclusions, Ben):
http://www.guardian.co.uk/stage/2009/mar/02/germaine-greer-comedy-women
Idea for a post. This might be dull, but maybe not.
TV ads win pencils every year, catapulting the creatives onwards, upwards and into better positions. But what percentage of the ads win “Idea” pencils vs “Craft” pencils.
And does it matter if you’ve got a black pencil for “Direction” or a silver for “Best use of real special effects” (as have Playstation Mountain and Skoda Cake, respectively)? They’re still pencils and still on the bookshelf of the creatives’ tragic open-plan cubicle, despite the award itself being given to Mr Budgen or some charmingly efficient bakers.
I’d love to see a little table of UK Pencil Winning TV ads of the last 10 years and what category the pencils were in.
Bet there are a few that you thought won for idea, but were in fact for some spurious executional bit*.
Come on, there’s must be a junior planner on here with a thirst for stats…
* And yes, I know that as the creative team, we ultimately choose the director so therefore have impacted on all those crafty things by enabling the people to make them happen, but you know what I’m getting at…
Correction:
Sorry, “Twisted” won a black pencil, not “Mountain”.
Your three-year-old daughter is going to be RAGINGLY competitive, but in a very, very cool way. She’s just building up to it slowly. And (obviously) I know what I’m talking about (as you know). I don’t think I started being really competitive until I was five.