ITIAPTWC Episode 27 – Me
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Hi there,
As it’s a holiday weekend I don’t want to put out an interview podcast that might be ignored.
Instead I’m putting out a monologue podcast that might be ignored.
And that monologue is from my own fair mouth/brain.
It concerns three slightly related topics.
- The ‘Kendall Jenner’ Pepsi ad. I thought I had a take on it that hadn’t really been explored. Alas, I was wrong. But by the time I discovered my mistake I’d already recorded the whole thing, and besides, I’m OK chiming with Jimmy Kimmel.
- Diversity in advertising. It’s the buzzword of today, but many people seem to take it only to mean ethnic diversity. I blather on about why this is, what the other types of diversity might be, and why it’s worth giving a shit.
- Does the political context affect the quality of art? Ian Heartfield (a former colleague) wrote an article about this for Campaign (well, it’s somewhat about this; there are other, possibly more interesting, parts of his article). Ian and Richard Curtis think it does; I disagree.
I considered writing three blog posts about the above but I wondered if a podcast might be better. You can listen to it while jogging, preparing dinner, or sticking your hand up a cow’s arse. And those are three situations where it’s easier to listen than to read.
So have a listen, let me know if you enjoyed it and let me know if you think I talk sense or not.
(here’s the Soundcloud link and the iTunes link.)
Happy Easter.
xxx
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Really enjoyed this. Think it’s a nice change and easier than reading – who does that anymore?! Perhaps could do / add this current topic debates with other guests in future to mix things up. A ‘panel’ discussion. Still having issues with getting higher volume, could be my device (or ears) but perhaps ask around a little. Thanks and Happy Resurrection Day.
Thanks for the feedback.
This one definitely came in on the lower end of the volume, but it’s a fine balance between too loud and too quiet.
I’ll keep looking into it.
And I’d love to do a bit more of a topical chat. If there’s anything people want to discuss, drop me an email at bwmkay@gmail.com
FTW (for the weekend) Two Irish guys tear apart the pepsi ad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5vvRRJRrpo
HOT TOPICS suggestion: Is it OK to be OK? Or do we have to all strive to be in the one percent of the best of the best. And how to go from OK to great.
Have a look at the new excrebale Renault Megane ad. The agency has gone…right…what do millenials want to be like….a guitarist in a band…tick…a Ted talker…tick….a creative….tick….hairy…tick….what a wanker.
Hi Ben,
Listened to your last podcast with interest.
What I feel is the problem is not that the industry is not ‘diverse’ enough*. It’s just that whether you are (insert the politically correct ways to describing people that we use at the moment) people all seem to be the same. Living in an East London / Soho bubble.
When I look back I was always selling things that weren’t aimed at me – broadband to Dad’s when I was 20. Asking people to join the Police Service of Northern Ireland when the last thing I wanted to do was have a ‘proper job’. But I felt I had common sense and I could put myself in people’s shoes. Then when I moved to London I had planners who were supposed to help me understand people (some did, some didn’t). I’m not sure people think anymore about what people in Hull care about – Brexit should of been a wake up call for our industry.
I’ve been lucky enough to work in creative departments that felt diverse, OK so there were more males than females, but they were diverse of background. Dad’s were astrophysicists or taxi drivers. There were ex-couriers sitting beside one of the smartest people I’ve ever met.
Maybe I was lucky to come from a working class family and grow up in a small town in Northern Ireland.
I had one occasion with an ECD who I won’t name – we were pitching on dry shampoo. Aimed at women – there was an all female team brought in for the pitch and I thought the work was patronising s**t, I wrote scripts that the ladies of the agencies liked (no idea if the client did as I was freelance). But it was a hard struggle to get heard in those meetings… I guess it was my first experience of the glass ceiling that able-bodied, white, middle class, straight, 30 something men experience.
I do ask when as able-bodied, white, middle class, straight, 40 year old man I’ll be able to write to Campaign saying the industry is discriminating against me.
*For the record my wife has definitely experienced the glass ceiling in her career in client services, which is more of a boys club than the creative ever was.
Good comment. The bubble is real, but I think it’ll be a while before systemic discrimination against white, middle-class, straight males will reach the levels of other discrimination.
You touch on something that is a real bugbear for me and that’s the hugely reductive way in which the diversity debate is framed.
http://www.campaignlive.co.uk/article/beautiful-weirdos-wanted-diversity-will-solve-creativity-problem/1421846#qFYC3ysgpd19892d.01
This article (much praised) is an example.
The gist of it is hire someone with ADHD over someone without it because they think differently. Why not hire someone with ADHD and autism over someone with only ADHD because they think even more differently?
What’s the end point of all this? And whatever happened looking beyond ailments and disabilities or sex, religion, class and colour? How about keeping things simple and just hiring interesting, creative people?
That’s an interesting question that society seems unable to answer in a way that satisfies everyone.
Do we give some marginalised people the same leg up that the white middle class blokes seem to have been given over the decades, or do we let everyone fend for themselves?
(See Conservative vs Labour and Democrat vs Republican for the exact same debate.)
Out of curiosity Ben do you know any departments that have actually worked when they have brought in ‘diversity’? An old ECD of mine (who you worked for as well) told me a tale of a fellow ECD who had just brought in beat poets etc. to work in the creative department – fast forward to a year later and when asked if it worked the reply was “NO”. And I think this was back in a time when the money was there – so you could experiment.
Again, just a question, are the courses like Bucks, Watford, Hyper Island etc. addressing this – I didn’t go that route but I’d imagine it can’t be cheap to do the course and take the time – are they working in a way to try and increase diversity?
I’m not doing this to say things are perfect – but now I’ve run a couple of small departments and I loved the idea of a mix of people – but I couldn’t afford the luxury and when it came down to it no client ever said “Well the work is shit, just a load of cool random nonsense. But as you’re so diverse you’ve won the pitch!” I’d of given a job to anyone if they could just do some work!
I’ll shut up now… I’m just a bit saddened to see the job I love doing becoming so dumbed down so we don’t run the risk of upsetting anyone in anyway either in the way we work or through the work we do.
I think there’s a bit of a difference between diversity (as in a range of genders, ethnicities, ages, sexualities etc.) and diversity (and old fucker who might have an interesting thought).
But yes, it might be good for the source (colleges) to examine their own intake to see how that affects the end results.
I doubt there are many straight white middle class creatives who were ushered into a cushy creative job with minimum effort by virtue of those things. I fit that description to a T and getting in was miserable, time consuming and bloody stressful.
Given the consensus on privilege I expect this fact is rarely conveyed to those less represented.
Good point, but what if you were one of the minorities that finds it even harder to get in purely by virtue of some subconscious bias against you (or in favour of someone else)?
I’m not saying it’s easy for anyone, but the degrees of difficulty do seem to increase for some.
Imagine refusing to read a novelist or columnist, or listen to a musician, or follow a fine artist, simply because they are over 40. When we set out to do things in life, the assumption is that one gets better and better at it. In this regard, advertising creatives are treated more like strippers than fine artists; they find themselves banished from the pole, just as they were finding their groove. The creative recruiters in agencies handle the age discrimination, to give the affable ECD plausible deniability. It’s all to maintain an enclosed habitat for hot, eligible 30-year-olds, which in turn keeps more people lingering after hours. But our age belongs to the stars of YouTube, and to them, the 30-year-old agency up-and-comers are dinosaurs. Has-beens. Cougars and skeeves.
You would think a few clever people would set up discreet back-alley agencies to profit from the experience, creativity, drive and maturity of people who have been made redundant before they’d even hit their stride.
Just an idea. Okay. Never mind.